Friday, October 26, 2007

"Crying over you, crying over you."

The following comment was left on my last post by one of the Full Tilt regulars:

Is the secret to your success 4-betting with QJo, and getting allin for 175 BB as a 2-1 underdog?


It's not on my agenda to pick fights with anyone, but it's disappointing to receive a sarcastic comment from another regular at the tables. Especially when it shows a complete lack of understanding of the game on their part. I apologise to dobie if this post sounds harsh but I don't appreciate his comments here or in the chat box at the table.

Here is the hand that dobieatwar is referring to, together with my comments. Hopefully he will learn something from this analysis and improve his game as a result.

FullTiltPoker Game #3969835186: Table Laurel Ridge - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:08:02 ET - 2007/10/26
Seat 1: dobieatwar ($344.35)
Seat 2: Bling1528 ($275.90)
Seat 3: lamta ($41.70)
Seat 7: Narena ($378.40)
Seat 9: premgolf ($256.70)
premgolf posts the small blind of $1
dobieatwar posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Narena [Qc Jh]
Bling1528 folds
lamta folds
Narena raises to $7
premgolf folds
dobieatwar raises to $22
Narena has 15 seconds left to act
Narena raises to $58
dobieatwar calls $36
*** FLOP *** [Jc 9d Td]
dobieatwar checks
Narena bets $88
dobieatwar raises to $286.35, and is all in
Narena calls $198.35
dobieatwar shows [7c 8c]
Narena shows [Qc Jh]
winston1984 sits down
*** TURN *** [Jc 9d Td] [8d]
winston1984 stands up
*** RIVER *** [Jc 9d Td 8d] [Qh]
dobieatwar shows a straight, Queen high
Narena shows a straight, Queen high
dobieatwar ties for the pot ($343.35) with a straight, Queen high and starts crying like a baby
Narena ties for the pot ($343.35) with a straight, Queen high

dobieatwar: another bs
dobieatwar: another suckout
dobieatwar: good job


Fuck me mate. You can't really be that fucking naive can you? This is a perfect example of why I don't get my table chat re-instated. I would still be arguing with all the fish and calling them useless cunts.

I 4-bet pre because I'm pretty confident that you're just playing back with a weak hand- frustrated at being pushed around. Even if I had been wrong and you had been ahead it doesn't make my pre-flop play poor. When you're battling with common opponents, hands shouldn't really be analysed in isolation- they are part of a more complex strategy. You've also completely ignored the fact that we are playing short-handed here- there are only 5 of us at the table. Surely you're aware how the dynamics of a table change when playing with just 4 opponents!!?

The flop is great for me. My 3/4 pot bet will often take the pot down- and may even induce a bluff given that we are deep enough.

As it happened, your dubious commitment of $58 pre-flop out-of-position with 87 paid off due to hitting your miracle 1.2% chance of flopping a straight!

When you push over the top, it is $200 to call into what will be a $700 pot. With odds of 5/2, that is a very easy call given the strength of my hand.

To be honest, I'm very surprised at your own inability to recognise what I have just explained, together with your "another bs/ another suckout" comments and your cheek in criticising my play in this instance. (I don't pretend that I don't make some awful plays at times, and I'm more than happy to accept criticism when it's justified if someone feels the need to vent- but that isn't the case here.)

Anyway mate, I sincerely hope you do well at the tables but do choose your targets more carefully in future- there is far easier money to be had out there.


Anonymous said...

I'm a 10c/25c "learner" and I really admire your play, especially from the blinds.

For my own benefit, how should Dobie have played flop? Doesn't he need to be concerned about KQ for made higher straight? Or AdKd/AdQd for 50/50 draw given pre-flop play? He doesn't have enough behind to shut down your draw let alone stronger draws. Holding the "dumb" end of strt doesn't he have a very vulnerable hand?

I have no idea how to play flop (LOL). I see scary cards everywhere!

I would have tended to merely call your flop bet to disguise my made hand and to keep the pot smaller in case you have KQ or AK and are about to stack me, especially as Dobie didn't have enough behind to shut down 30% draws.

Then, when 8 came on turn and you bet big with q-hi strt I would have folded so I would have missed out on split pot on river. LOL.

Pls help me and others think situations like this through.

Ting Rose at FTP.

Smart Money said...

He played the flop perfectly. He knows I will likely bet if he checks to me, so the check/raise will usually get my stack.

The odds of me having KQ are small enough for him to not to be concerned about. It would be different if it was a multi-way limped pot. (99% of the time when I 4-bet pre-flop I am going to have either AA/KK.)

You can't ever be scared to lose a large pot, and you can't fear that your opponent MIGHT have a better hand in "cooler" situations. (NB: Don't confuse this with only being concerned with your own cards and not reading your opponent.)

The board is very scary and he can't afford to risk not charging me more to see the turn.

Amatay said...

wp sir. iv'e been getting abused at the on my blog for my 'fishy' play aswell. The fish dont understand do they lol, gl

Smart Money said...

lol, too right. There's a difference between being a fish and playing like a fish. :)

Anonymous said...

you muppet

- Gamboooooooooooool

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it.


Ting Rose at FTP.